Epicodus

I graduated from the very first Java/Javascript/Android co-hort in August 2015 and have been asked to write a review about my experience at Epicodus. Many, many things have changed at Epicodus since I graduated, so I don't think my review would accurately reflect what a student would encounter now. Please keep that in mind as you read my review. Feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn if you have specific questions about how to get into the world of Android development. 

Why Epicodus?

Epicodus is dirt cheap in comparison to other programs. I would not have been able to afford attendance at other bootcamps. I don't know any other in-person program that also offers an internship that costs so little. This was a huge factor for me.

What did I think of the teachers, curriculum, pair programming...

Teachers

My teacher left 2/3rds of the way through the program. This may sound like a red flag, but it wasn't because of Epicodus. We still keep in touch and while he was there he worked very hard. 

The founder replaced him. He doesn't have a background in Java or Android. Realizing we were kind of on our own at this point, I chose to spend more time studying with online courses through Udemy. That ended up being extremely valuable, as I knew much more going into my internship.

I always felt very supported by the staff and my fellow classmates. I had an amazing cohort.

Curriculum

Sorry, I cannot give a favorable review here. The curriculum for the Java/Android portion was very, very incomplete. Basic building blocks of Android were not covered. Even as beginners, we knew it was not good. It would not have prepared anyone for Android development. I learned way more from some Udemy courses than Epicodus. You might be wondering, "how can I tell if the curriculm is any good now?" All of Epicodus's curriculum is online. My advice is to reach out to someone in the community and ask for their opinion.

Please keep in mind that this was the first run through of a course which is now 2 years old. I know several people have put a lot of work into the curriculum. I don't think anything I said applies now. Unfortunately, that was my experience with the program...so it goes in the review.

Pair Programming

I both loved and hated this. When you pair with someone who is very passionate then you learn a lot. I really looked forward to pairing with certain people because I did not have much confidence at the time, so I didn't want to "drive" very much.

It's good practice because at your internship and job you will need to know how to talk through bugs / issues you find with your peers. It's also a good exercise in patience... :)

Tips for during and after program

Network network network. If you don't get hired out of your internship then you will need to fall back on your network. I can't emphasize how important this is. Network like a crazy person. Follow recruiters for your favorite companies. Accept random recruiter invites. Some people will tell you to do the opposite, but I got a job at Nike by accepting a random recruiter invite. 

When you are not networking, study study study. I know they emphasize work life balance there, but if you are like me, and not working for 6-8 months is a big financial risk, then you should be studying studying studying. You can't afford to fail here. 

Job assistance

The staff worked very hard to find interviews for me. However, I ended up getting an interview that turned into my first job through a friend... What did I say about networking, again??? 

Overall

The Java/Javascript/Android course is very strange. If you are a java web developer, you probably aren't using javascript. If you are a javascript developer, you definitely aren't using java. If you are an Android developer, any java you need to learn can be taught while learning Android. Throwing in a web backend course makes no sense. The three classes do not build on each other at all in the way that their other courses do. i.e. Rails is a very obvious pair for Ruby because it was built specifically to work with Ruby.

My point is, Epicodus is not trying to prepare you to be a mobile developer. They state very clearly on their site that they are teaching you how to program and pick up new things quickly. I am an Android developer not because of Epicodus, but because of the extra work I put into learning Android, and the luck I had in getting an Android internship. You are not guaranteed an internship in your field of study. Of my 30+ class, only 6 of us have jobs in mobile development.

If you are trying to change careers and do not really care where you get placed, then this is a great choice for you. You won't get the same value for your $$ anywhere else. I don't know any other place that offers internships, and this is huge.

If you have played around with mobile development and really love it, and want to be an Android developer, I would advise you to look elsewhere. Udacity & Google offer an apprenticeship program, for example. 

Epicodus provided the learning environment and support that I needed to become employed as an Android Engineer with a really great company.  

There is no way I would have made the relationships and picked up the skills that I needed to land a Dev job on my own.

 

What Epicodus does for you

Epicodus provides excellent curriculum, teachers that are committed to student success, and an excellent learning environment.

The work is challenging, especially if your prior programming experience is limited.

 

The work is largely self-driven, the assignments are available online, and you are given the tools to complete them.  It’s a bit of a race against the clock everyday to understand and implement all of the new concepts that get thrown at you.

You certainly get out what you put in to this program.

 

I loved the pair programming, as I genuinely enjoy meeting people.  But aside from meeting people, pairing also gives you excellent practice talking about what your code is doing and how you are trying to accomplish your coding goal.  This is actually very important, and one of the hidden benefits to pairing, IMO.

Having months of practice verbalizing technical problems helped me when I sat down with a Sr dev at my internship to track down a bug.  It also helped me in post internship job interviews.

Pairing also brings a unspoken accountability which I know made me more productive.  When working/studying at home, it’s easy to log into Facebook or pull up a YouTube video when I’ve ‘earned’ a break.  That doesn’t happen when working side by side with someone else all day.

 

The Epicodus staff is fantastic, I’m still in touch with a some of them (Hi Perry!).  From what I’ve seen, they are committed to providing the best education and employment support they can.

There were times that I felt the resources were limited (teachers are busy, career services could

probably use more staff), but there was never a time when I felt that the staff’s commitment was limited.  Also, I understand that it’s one of Michael’s (the founder) goals to keep the program as affordable as possible.  In that light, the fact that Epicodus is working to be as lean and efficient as possible ultimately benefits the students.

 

What you need to do on your own

Learn data structures, especially if you’re hoping to land a C# or Java job.

Learn design patterns outside of the ones covered in the curriculum.

Participate in events and meet-ups.  Meet people, ask for their card (or name), follow up w an email the next day.  If you have to cold-email them 2 months down the road, reply to the same thread so they know they’ve met you before.

Be willing and able to talk about what you’re working on and/or what tech you’re excited to try next.

Read tech blogs, article, listen to podcasts, watch people live code on twitch.  Immerse yourself in the stack/field that you are interested in.

Continue to build and work on portfolio projects. Deploy them.

Learn new stacks and frameworks.

Work on soft skills.  I know it sounds cliche, but I 100% wouldn’t have landed my Android Engineer role without being able to communicate and relate well.

Make friends with your classmates.  My cohort was particularly tight-knit, and I love the fact that we get together fairly often to catch up.  The opportunity to have a built in support network of people also in this field can't be understated.

Realities

The market seems to be more saturated with Jr Devs that it was a couple years ago.  Bootcamps are more prevalent.  It will be harder to stand out and land jobs, or sometimes even interviews.

These are forces that are outside of Epicodus’ control, but they present challenges that new grads will have to navigate.

That said, opportunities are out there.  I interviewed for some jobs that were never 'officially' posted because I got reccomended by the right person at the right time.  Don't turn your nose up at Support Engineer or QA roles.  Seriously.  The 1st job is the hardest one to get.  Take any opportunity that you can, including freelace work.

Jr Devs aren’t hired because they are amazing programmers.  They are hired because they have demonstrated strong passion for the field, curiosity, likeability, excellent communication skills, and a technical baseline that can be built on.  Epicodus only gives you one of those, if you can manage the others, you'll do great.

 

 - Caleb

Background:

Prior to starting at Epicodus in October 2016, I was a full-time student pursuing a degree in Computer Science. The desire to have more hands-on experience, in an accelerated program, motivated me to research the different “bootcamps” available in Portland. Bottom line, I wanted to get to work. Ultimately, I chose Epicodus based on price, my initial experiences with staff (shout out to Debbie for hosting a great informational open house), and the opportunity to have an internship at the end of the process.

Overall:

As many others have said, Epicodus changed my life. Today, I am working as a full-time Web Developer for a company that I absolutely love. Epicodus provided me with the tools and opportunity to jumpstart my career in web development. That being said, you have to be willing to put in the time and effort. Merely showing up for 40 hours a week and completing the bare minimum will not turn you into a developer.

Curriculum:

In doing my research ahead of time, I entered Epicodus with the knowledge that this would not be a hands-on program, in terms of having day-to-day instruction. I enjoyed the lack of lectures and the minimal help from teachers (though they were always there if needed). This independent learning structure helped me learn how to problem solve on my own (something that has come in very handy in my new role). The world of web development is ever-changing, so I thought that Epicodus did a good job at keeping the curriculum as up-to-date as can be.

From the curriculum that I did receive, I feel as though I understand the languages and syntax that are used today. As I mentioned above, Epicodus will be what you make of it.

Pair Programming:

Pair programming was a great tool for learning. Depending on the skill level of your daily partner, you either have the opportunity to learn from someone with more experience, or to teach someone who may be struggling with the concept at hand, which helps to solidify your own understanding. In the intro class they emphasize working with someone new each day. But, as the program progresses they understand that you may find yourself working with several of the same partners over time. If you find that you don’t work well with another student, there’s no pressure to work with them again.

Internship:

Epicodus set up four internship interviews for me, with two being at the top of my “wish list”, one in the middle, and one pretty much at the bottom. The process was a little nerve-wracking, as there isn’t a guarantee that you will be matched with your top choice (even if they also list you as their top choice). They do this to make it a fair process, but it can still induce some anxiety. Luckily, I was matched with my top pick, as were many of my friends.

My internship was a fantastic experience. I was given client work right off the bat and had daily interaction with the rest of the development team. As Epicodus has mentioned, your language of choice may not be the language you end up utilizing in your internship. This was the case for me, but I found that picking up a new language was not as daunting as I thought it would be.

Job Assistance:

I can’t comment on the job assistance that Epicodus provides, as I accepted a position with my internship company. From my brief interactions with the outreach team, they are all very responsive and eager to be of assistance.

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If you have any questions about my experience at Epicodus, feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. 

I was drawn to Epicodus by their low tuition, which I think is outstanding amongst its peers. You never get the feeling that you're being ripped off in any way, which was something I was generally apprehensive about when searching. The school is genuine and transparent, which as much as anything made my experience there cherished. Staff there was always engaged and helpful - albeit w/ an air of having a lot on their plates!

And that's something you have to understand about Epicouds - it's not an experience that's going to be able to hold your hand the whole way through. You're really working with your fellow students to wade through the world of resources available to you, guided of course by the Epicodus curriculum.

You pair with another student everyday and work through assignments together - so take note that this 'pair programming' is at the core of the experience. There are pros and cons, but personally I'm very appreciative of this system. You really get to know your fellow students and your all a big jolly group of friends by the end of the course, was great for me as I had just moved to town.

Personally I think Epicodus could offer a little more solo time for those like myself who felt like they really needed days to just spread their wings -- you do work on a solo project every Friday, but I did sometimes feel stagnant due to partners at a lower level or a slow curriculum day and it would have been cool to have spent that time wayfaring the didactic playground of the internet. That being said though, I really do dig the system - you develop A LOT of soft skills from working w/ a variety of different partners and it's great for exposure to a diversity of insights & perspectives. If I would offer one other criticism, it's that the teachers can sometimes be a little more rigid than they need to be, focusing more on curriculum grading criteria than what I think is the bigger question: whether we know what we're doing and are learning. But that's definitely no biggie, and I can also be a bit delightfully mischievous :P


I was hesitant about doing a bootcamp because I'm a big self-starter, so learning to code felt like something I could have done on my own. But the experience of going to that space everyday and coding as part of our community of students really was truly invaluable, I learned a ton while there and can't imagine getting started without something like that. So as an educational experience: A+ (especially because of the program's duration).
 

Epicodus leads you into an internship as the final part of the expierience, great for me as I'm now working where I interned. The school matchmakes students w/ companies it has relationships w/, which can be kind of hit or miss. But it is a big step forward in terms of experience and finding an internship yourself (or a job of course) is just so harrowing that I'm grateful that process was kind of streamlined for me. I wish I could comment more on job prospects/assistance after Epicdous, but I really can only say that most of my comrades were not hired on by their internships and in the few months since we finished I'd say many of us have found employment and many haven't. I only have a limited experience of the Portland job market, but I really think this is an industry in which you can take advantage of unemployed time to improve yourself as a coder and a candidate. It's hard to stay motivated, especially when you could be getting paid for that self-development, but you really can just progress on your own and make employment more and more inevitable.

TL;DR Epicodus is a fantastic environment to learn to code and kick off your career, you'll meet great people and get great educational exposure. The more ambition you have to immerse yourself deeply into the dark arts of code, the more you'll guarantee your success.

Why Epicodus worked for me: 

• great price
• great location and a nice space
• pair programming + group projects (I wanted experience working with others)
• the curriculum gave me direction and motivation i lacked when working on my own
• the cohort (I met and still am in touch with - so many great people)
• the internship (it was great to get some experience working with a tech company)
• job finding assistance (I actually found my current position through an Epicodus job posting)

Why Epicodus might not work for everyone:

• the curriculum is more broad than deep  (that means extra studying if you want to go in depth into anything, which doesn't work for everyone.)
• it's better to think of the instructors as TAs (they'll help you when you get stuck, but there's no direct instruction per se)
• the amount you learn is self-driven (because of time constraints and the fact that Epicodus accepts students at all levels of coding knowledge, it is often up to the student to challenge themselves or follow up with the resources that Epicodus provides)
• your job search is also going to be largely self driven (again, Epicodus offers resources, but in the end it is up to you to follow up on them, do the networking etc)
• not all internships are created equal (it is possible that you will get an internship with a company that is very up and coming or not entirely certain what to do with an intern)

Epicodus is very clear about what it is and is not.  From the get-go (as in, these are all things that I was told during my intake interview) they want you to understand that the instructors are more TAs than anything else, that your learning is largely self-driven, and that the goal of Epicodus is as much about teaching you HOW to learn how to code as it is teaching you how to code.  This last skill is invaluable given the rate that technology is advancing - it is incredibly unlikely that you will never have to learn a new framework/language for a job.  As long as you understand those things, are willing to put in a lot of work yourself, and keep working on improving after you have finished the curriculum, Epicodus will work great for you.

 

 

Minimal effort by the online instructor (in-person instructor in Portland was awesome), the Portland campus looks nothing as advertised, the material is very very out of date, and there is no structure.

Often times it would take over 3 weeks for weekly projects to be graded by the online instructor (it took over a month for our capstones to be graded). Though the in-person instructor would have assignments graded with 1-2 days.

If you are expecting instructor led courses, then don't go here. The instructors are there to answer questions, not actually teach. To ask a question you have to fill out a form and then submit the form to a discord bot, which in itself is time consuming and can feel daunting. If you do end up attending this bootcamp, know that you're basically going to be on your own.

The online instructor was only available from 11am-3pm (if you're lucky), so you're on your own if you need help. But the in-person instructor was present almost always.

I could go on and on about all the issues with this program, but that would take pages upon pages.

I wish I could get a refund because this was a joke.

TLDR; Online instructor was only present for short periods of time (In-person instructor was awesome, and present almost always). The material was/is out of date. I don't recommend going here.

Epicodus gave me all the tools to become a successful programmer: how to walk through code, how to think and design with class constructors, components, and the MVC structure, how to pair program and talk about code with others, how to implement best practices and most importantly, how to use a growth mindset. If it wasn't for Epicodus, I wouldn't have a job in the field. My Javascript/React/C# class at Epicodus coincided with a college track where I was taking computer science and math. I'm convinced you get more hands-on experience at Epicodus then you would a four year degree. If you are looking to get into the industry, I would highly recommend the Epicodus full time track with the internship matchmaking process. Although I didn't get a job from my internship, I got one soon after. The internship was truly a stepping stone into my next adventure and taught me about as much as the program itself. I can't say enough good things about Epicodus. The main advice I would give to someone starting out is, you get out what you put into the program. Truly a great experience!

Positives:
1) The flipped classroom style, and pair-programming aspect really worked well with my learning style. I was able to absorb the material at my own pace, and have the ability to implement what I learned with my partner. It's incredibly helpful and productive to have someone at your skill level learning alongside. However, it did not mean that the material came easy to me.
2) The student advisors help keep you on track towards your end goal. Their mock interviews and resume reviews are essential towards obtaining a job. They also help see you from a humanistic perspective, and not judge you solely on your technical skills. They would also send emails of open positions to students, if they're still job searching. I believe it's the student advisors who set up guest speakers every week or two, which are super awesome to attend to, and allow a chance to broaden your network! They range from past alumni's experience to recruiters with insider's tips & tricks.
3) The student advisors also seek internships for students to work under. I wouldn't have found mine if I didn't go through Epicodus. I imagine it would have taken me three-four times the work to get the same experience.
4) The fact that I got to do this at home, remotely, and learn ended up feeling more productive for me. Sure, it would be pleasant to interact and pair-program in person, but I found the positives of working from home more substantial.
5) Team week projects were fun, and having that same Friday off was a pleasant break to have!
6) Cost is less than other bootcamps I have found. They also have a scholarship program for the underrepresented population.
7) The program's embrace towards DEI showed me that they didn't care only about money, and had an ethical approach towards the tech industry.

Negatives:
1) In all honesty, instructors can be a hit or a miss. They're all very nice people, and I wouldn't mind working with them in the real world alongside as my coworkers. I just had a hard time thinking I could depend on them to explain certain logic, or reasoning behind the code.
2) Discord channel could be messy, and unorganized. Epicodus does their best, but I felt it wasn't the best medium to display information when other cohorts were going on too.
3) The clock-in and clock-out system can be a bit constricting, but there are chances to fix them with the instructors.
4) The React curriculum isn't the best to work from. It's a good reference to go to, but I wouldn't depend on it as my sole guide to understanding React.

For all the negatives I pointed out, it minimally affected my ability to learn how to code and program. Therefore, I give Epicodus 4 stars altogether!

Epicodus is much more affordable than other bootcamps I was looking at. I like that it offers C# and I think the pacing of the material was almost perfect. I really appreciated having internships at the end of the program and that the culture is inclusive. I would've liked to have covered more material in the C# portion of the program, I feel as though it was a little slow paced and repetitive, whereas the React portion felt crammed with too much new material on top of Career Services assignments and capstones. Overall though, I feel liked I learned a lot through their curriculum and that Career Services helped better prepare me for job interviews and applications. I would absolute recommend this bootcamp to friends, especially those who have some experience with programming as it will probably benefit them in the long run.

Epicodus taught me the most updated and relevant information on each language and framework. I still find myself going back for information from the curriculum now because there is a lot of really useful information in there! This bootcamp provided me with the structure I needed to sit down and spend time everyday to learn how to code. Pair programming was useful because that it allowed me to work with many different types of people and to learn and grow together. The content is challenging so be sure you are ready to commit. You get out what you put in! Ultimately I highly recommend this bootcamp to anyone who is considering one. It's very thorough and the instructors are awesome!

The quality of Epicodus does not meet their current asking price for tuition, nor their updated one. Career services are severely lacking for example. In one instance of our cohort the career services, people were asked about networking and they told us they didn't have any good feedback since they didn't really enjoy it themselves. It was super cringe when it happened. We've also been told by students they've asked to come back and speak that they received no help from them during the job hunt. Basically don't come here expecting career services.

After that, the material feels really beta testy. Spelling and grammar mistakes feel pretty regular. They do fix them fairly quickly when they are reported though so there's that.

We've also had instances of poorly worded projects. In one instance a project told us to write a test with an example that would pass the test with the way that they worded it. Again, not very helpful and confusing. Also, one of the other rubric items was interpreted in different ways because it was described with what I call "weasel words". Phrases are ill-defined when you're working with data. What do they consider a phrase? How many? It was unclear.

We also couldn't get a response from any instructors that day because they were all offline. Which leads to one of my other issues about Instructors being hit or miss.

For example, rather than giving us coding examples in the morning, they were giving us Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion examples. They had difficulty answering questions on DEI on a couple of occasions. We were also denied our pleas to proctor examples early on. I'm actually at the point where I wish I had dropped when I could get a refund, but I'm now stuck with the course or taking on a loan for a course that I don't actually feel fulfill's its advertising of what they offer.

This was also odd compared to what students said in other cohorts where they did get proper walkthroughs. So it really sounds like you get a different experience depending on if you get Cathy or Shawn, who sound wonderful.

There was also recently a presentation from some prior students where one didn't get a proper internship either. They basically were an employee so it would seem that Epicodus might not be properly vetting their internship either.

So let's review: Material can be problematic and unclear, Instructors can be hit or miss, projects can be poorly written, you're held to an attendance standard the instructors themselves don't hold themselves to, career services doesn't have the experience it needs to operate properly, and the internship could land you in a positon where you're really just unpaid labor for someone because they didn't properly vet it.